Comments: Church Times on Ordinariate and Societies

“Will the bishops who seek to lead in this society be prepared to break the rules when needed, to consecrate further bishops?"

Well, yes, of course they will. And so will the bishops of Reform's new society. Why else go to the trouble of setting up such a thing?

And then in the Church of England you will have three separate churches and hierarchies, all claiming legal ownership of "their" property. Which one will hook up with GAFCON, do you think? Which one will be expelled from the Anglican Communion when the other two unite against it?

I can see that I won't have to worry about TEC and the Covenant any longer. The Church of England will be pretty busy with its own schisms for quite a while, and have much less energy left for the never-ending struggle to kick us out of the Communion.

Posted by Charlotte at Friday, 22 October 2010 at 6:37pm BST

Ruth Gledhill believes the St Augustine is St Augustine of Canterbury. How sad, as he would abominate the gospel preached by Reform. They clearly are using him to give an illusion of

As for "lots of people" in Folkestone...there are only 40 who attend the Church.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Friday, 22 October 2010 at 8:23pm BST

Above the really friendly insider club house for strict Anglican conservatives will be a door sign nailed high: No gurrllls.

I personally cannot avoid recalling my vivid childhood impressions of just how deeply disenfrachised and depressed most Bible Belt USA women seemed to be, all without putting those troubles into direct words. The thriving woman was rare to find in those days.

Rowan Williams may get his muti-tiered global communion yet; as the world turns.

Turning back the clocks is a deep, one might say, bottomless, endeavor; so who can guess how far excluding certain folks needs to go? Fie, fie on modernity.

Also striking that the folks who most espouse this notion of Male Headship are on the bandwagon to fret and wring their hands about the decline of so-called traditionalistic sex/gender/married spouse roles. What will become of us if we cannot properly subdue and contain all those otherwise uppity women - and their allies, of course? Headship and the suppression/control/policing it customarily involves ... starts at home. Heavy is the (male) head that has to wear that crown, let alone the impeccable burdens and coding that means costuming the Status Quo as something to do with love, rather than raw power, males over women and children and unconformed males.

Meanwhile, once all the dust settles some, maybe we can enjoy interfaith relationships otherwise forbidden - hilariously prohibited - inside what used to be the big global Anglican tent. No matter how welcome religious wars look at any given moment, that warfare is actually difficult to sustain over long periods and surely destructive, across the boards.

How long can global institutions survive, minus the giving and sacrifices of women otherwise rendered voiceless and immaterial, theologically via core doctrines which appear to seriously mistake concepts of what it is to be fully human, as women?

Posted by drdanfee at Friday, 22 October 2010 at 9:07pm BST

There is a lot of bluster at the moment. It is quite possible in principle for voluntary societies to work alongside a Code of Practice.

I still have on my shelf Richard Foster's book "Money, Sex and Power" - those who claim the society model, which has roots in the monastic foundations, could do worse than cultivate the monastic virtues of poverty, chastity and obedience to which Foster draws attention - as, of course, could the rest of us.

Posted by Mark Bennet at Friday, 22 October 2010 at 9:40pm BST

"Although Bishop Edwin Barnes and others were on hand to say that “the game is up,” and to urge the claims of the “see of Peter”, members of the Catholic Group said that the legislative process was not yet over, and Synod members were “not all bad”. It was quite possible, Prebend­ary David Houlding said, that a “blocking third” could be obtained in the House of Laity."

- Glyn Paflin, Church Times art. -

This, obviously, is the most concerning fact of the recent G.S. elections: that though the numbers of 'inclusive' clergy have increased, the House of Laity has gained more 'conservative' lay members, who will no doubt strive to defeat the Bill authroising the ordination of women bishops in the Church of England.

Ibn the same article, the writer speaks of former TEC Bishop Iker, 'the most-sued bishop' in North America, who is obviously taking advantage of the situation to flex his schismatic muscles to do all he can to help break up the Anglican Communion. His intentions should warn every single Anglican in good standing in the U.K. not to become party to his quasi-episcopal maunderings which are based on his desire for some sort of acceptance by the Church of England of his schismatic grouping: ACNA in N. America.
Heretics can be strange bed-fellows - not suitable partners for traditional Anglicanism.

It is already being said that the departure of C.of E. Conservatives for the new Ordinariates will raise the I.Q of both entities.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 23 October 2010 at 12:03am BST

"I can see that I won't have to worry about TEC and the Covenant any longer. The Church of England will be pretty busy with its own schisms for quite a while, and have much less energy left for the never-ending struggle to kick us out of the Communion." - Charlotte, on Friday -

Now this would worry me - that the venerable TEC constituency of the Anglican Communion should feel even further cut-off from the historic Church of England - because of the splitting off into various sodalities, each of which claim to represent the historical Church of England ethos.

If ever the C.of E. accepts the practical idea of enrolling women clergy into the episcopate, it will surely require any Anglican sodality within the Church of England to accept that fact - despite the existence of various entities within the C.of E. who might want to deny it? If not, then the Church of England could no longer claim to represent the interests of its founding reformed, catholic & apostolic heritage. Henceforth, it may not want to claim to be in union with its own missionary Provinces of the Communion - of which TEC and other Provinces were considered members as fellow 'Anglicans'.

For the C.of E. to harbour within its own family the warring factions of both pro and anti-women societies, would surely be counter-productive, to say the very least. Not many of us would want to claim membership of a body warring against itself! This is the antithesis, surely, claims to represent a true component of the 'Body of Christ'.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 23 October 2010 at 12:46am BST

Re Paul Vallely: he and (x)Broadhurst have very different vision of just what the Roman Catholic Church (where Paul is already a member of the Latin Rite) is.

I desperately WANT Mr Vallely to be the one w/ the more accurate vision.

But surely Vallely would have to concede that the existence of the Ordinariate in itself gives rise to doubt---that perhaps (x)Broadhurst is a vanguard of a soon-coming "Ordinariate-ization" (substantively, though not dejure of course) of the whole of the Latin Rite? [Switching "And also with you." to "And with your spirit." is a start in that direction? O_o]

Posted by JCF at Sunday, 24 October 2010 at 12:14am BST

I get depressed by the hijacking of the word traditionalist by people who are not traditionalists at all.

If they really were genuine traditionalists then they would be proudly honouring the Apostle to the Apostles, Mary Magdelene, but of course they are not...

Posted by chenier1 at Wednesday, 27 October 2010 at 1:04am BST
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