Comments: Suffragan see of Reading

Can't find much by him apart from this.

Posted by Eddie Green at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 11:13am GMT

OK - Please enlighten me: what is "a liveryman of the Worshipful Company of Weavers of London"?

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 12:59pm GMT

Thanks for the link, Eddie. It makes for rather a depressing read -- he isn't going to go down too well in Oxford... For all the apparent even-handedness, it looks like Gagnon all the way; and the idea that the Anglican Churches in the global North as he sees it (conveniently leaving out NZ, Australia, S. America) have a mission to their gay and lesbian parishioners clearly hasn't crossed his mind. His church is too busy, he says, keeping afloat in the alien cultural swell to have any sense of direction: I don't much like the sound of the one he wants to take us in: but perhaps he has re-charted his course since then...

The City of London Livery Companies are the heirs of the medieval guilds and their governance. So it'll be a charity -- and apparently gives out scholarships and bursaries for textile-related projects, both educational and artistic.

Posted by Tony Phelan at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 4:51pm GMT

Posted by John Roch at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 6:26pm GMT

Cynthia Gilliatt, I'm a Yank and therefore probably am displaying my woeful ignorance, but in movie Westerns, a liveryman was a man who ran, or worked in, stables. However, Wikipedia has an extensive article at

Quote: "Most livery companies, particularly those formed in recent years, are primarily social and charitable organizations." So maybe the more modern livery societies act like Masons and Shriners?
A similar inquiry to Cynthia's, does AKC mean that the Right Reverend John proud is an Associate of King's College? That's one meaning given by the Internet.
I guess there's a hazard in Americans reading about certain British goings-on, ;-)
With all due respect to the gentleman, if I may be so presumptuous, I doff my hat and say congratulations to the Right Reverend Proud.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 8:13pm GMT

Dear American readers,

As a proud holder of the AKC (no pun intended on the new +Reading), I can confirm that it means the holder is an Associate of King's College (London). The AKC was an ordination qualification (= M.Div) given at King's when it was also a recognized C of E theological college (until 1976). Since it was technically a 'college' and not a University, it could not award degrees. This has now changeed and the new, improved and gargantuan KCL awards its own degrees.

Former bishops Broadhurst and Newton and Flying Bishop Jarrett of Beverley are AKC as is also the Dean of St Paul's. We are getting rather long in the tooth and there are no more being produced, so this is infomation you did not need.

But I did need you to know that membership of the American Kennel Club is not (yet) a qualification for ordination in the Church of England.

Posted by Lister Tonge at Monday, 17 January 2011 at 11:28pm GMT

Thank you all for enlightening comments re honorary memberships.

My gift to all on this list is to say that two novels by Connie Willis are outstanding: "Blackout" and "All Clear."

They have to do with WWII in England, and time travel, and Holman Hunt's "The Light of the World." Oh, and the Blitz, and some wonderfully anarchist children. And love.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Tuesday, 18 January 2011 at 3:08am GMT

Reading Eddie Green's link above, I'm not quite sure what Dr Proudie was trying to do converting Amhara people in Addis Ababa to Anglicanism, as they are nearly all Ethiopian Orthodox, and have been Christian since the 4th century... it reads rather like something from a 1930s novel.

His comment that homosexuality is illegal and leads to severe punishment in Ethiopia, yet that he regards the Western world's leniency to gay people as merely a block to good ecumenical relations in Africa was rather chilling. There are plenty of gay Ethiopians who suffer terribly from the taboos still in place in that society, where saying one thing and doing another is the norm, as one knows from experience, having spent time living in Addis and having known St Matthew's well (though before Dr Proudie's time there).

Posted by Fr Mark at Tuesday, 18 January 2011 at 8:44am GMT

Thanks for the novels Cynthia. Appreciated.

Andrew Proud is very different to Jeffrey John then.

It sounds as if Kings has a lot to answer for. And it always seemed to me as an outsider quite a gay place, and provider of gay clergy. There ya go !

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Tuesday, 18 January 2011 at 11:50am GMT

If one is of a rather fogeyish, old fashioned, bent, as many Anglicans are, being a liveryman is the most fun one can have with one's clothes on!

Posted by Gerry Lynch at Tuesday, 18 January 2011 at 9:49pm GMT

"Furthermore, this sharp decline in Christianity in the global North has been matched by a moral and epistemological relativism within western society that (sometimes, aggressively) dismisses religion as a source of moral guidance at all. Most people would simply not consider it, appealing more to conscience or cultural mores."

- Bishop Proud (Elect of Reading)

After a short time in Ethiopia, Bishop Proud is obviously identifying more with the provinces of the so-called 'Global South' than with his new environment in the 'Global North' Church of England. From the above extract from his thoughts about the Communion, the new +Reading proves to be a very different kettle of fish from his erstwhile sometime predecessor, once elected and then almost immediately divested of that role.

Here in Reading you will have a bishop who has expressed the opinion that, compared to the excitement of evangelisation in the Global South Provinces, those in the Global North have nothing to commend their diligence in proclaiming the Gospel. Despite TEC and the A.C.of C.'s lonely task of promoting the rightful place of Women and Gays within the community of the Church (against the wishes of the conservative primates of the G.S. provinces), in Bp. Proud's humble opinion, they do not measure up to what is required of them, needing a lesson in moral theology from his G.S. colleagues.

One can only hope that this appointment does not spell the beginning of a new set of parameters for C.of E. episcopal appointment. Granted, those like Nazir-Ali and Scott-Joyntt will be sorely missed by the conservatives in the C.of E., but do you need more of the same ilk? Can not new potential bishops be give a course in Human Development, on issues of Gender and Sexuality, to keep pace with modern developments in these areas? This could be vital for the future Church.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 22 January 2011 at 9:58am GMT

Although much of what Lister Tonge says is correct, I hope that he is glad to find out that it is not true that new AKC are not being created.
Every student at King's College London can study for the AKC on top of their ordinary degree (English, French, Physics, Geography etc), and after passing an exam at the end of each of three years can apply to be elected as an Associate of the College.

All information about the AKC can be found at

Posted by J R at Thursday, 31 March 2011 at 11:06pm BST
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